Is the claim the Stonewall is ‘transphobic’ justified?
Stonewall working for equality and justice for lesbians, gay men and bisexuals.
Many associations campaigning for gay rights have adopted the Trans cause to form the LGBT. Stonewall has decided to remain LGB as far as I can tell. This in itself is not a problem: there are many trans-only support groups to run to. Having a purely homosexual association is a good thing.
The trans community is in uproar after hearing that Stonewall have shortlisted Julie Bindel for an award at their upcoming ceremony; they are planning a protest outside the V&A where the ceremony is to be held. Many transpeople are blindly following what they are being told by Queer News and other such sources. As a transperson myself, I felt like looking slightly closer before I committed myself to attending a protest.
Julie Bindel is a feminist writer and journalist and a good one at that. She writes and speaks with articulation, precision and clarity about issues that most people avoid going near altogether. I admire her courage in speaking her mind and defending herself against those who perhaps only read what they wanted to see in her articles.
Julie Bindel certainly has an alternative view of trans people when compared to the majority of the LGBT community, but should an alternative view automatically be branded ‘transphobic’ because it doesn’t sit well with our current understanding? Whatever we believe, we should always consider alternatives and not dismiss them without seriously considering their implications. Julie Bindel has raised some very interesting and important points regarding trans people that should be discussed.
I am saddened to see my trans brothers and sisters jump to conclusions about a journalist because they read some quotations out of context on Facebook.
I will try and summarize her point of view, but be warned that this is my interpretation. I may be wrong on some conclusions and biased on others.
Bindel has written about gender neutral toilets (a topic that is close to the heart of any trans person). She feels that they aren’t very fair to women. Normally there are not enough toilets for females and adding gender neutral ones provides even less for women.
…’the British Film Institute on London’s South Bank, has created two gender-neutral toilets: one converted from a staff toilet and one from an existing women’s toilet – the busiest one, in fact, in the bar area. Which somehow doesn’t seem very fair.’
Perhaps this isn’t a fair way of doing things. Taking it out of the existing male toilet could have been a more responsible way of dealing with the situation based on the reasoning that the female toilets often have longer queues anyway.
‘But why would transgender folk need a “gender-neutral” loo at a gay film festival, when they would ordinarily use the one prescribed to their chosen gender?’
This is a fair point but not every trans person identifies solely with one gender. Many find the binary of female/male to be an insult when they consider themselves to be neither. Choosing a gender every time they have to use a toilet can be stressful. Often when a trans person uses a toilet ‘prescribed to their chosen gender’ they get ridiculed or insulted. If there was more tolerance, then using the toilet that they best identify with would be ideal but until then, the only way some of us can feel safe going to the toilet is to be in a gender neutral one.
On a different note, she brings her own experiences into an article.
‘Feminists want to rid the world of gender rules and regulations, so how is it possible to support a theory which has at its centre the notion that there is something essential and biological about the way boys and girls behave? As someone who spurned dolls and make-up as a child, I find it deeply troubling that, had I gone to one of the specialist psychiatrists while growing up and explained how I did not feel like a “real girl” (which I did not, because I wanted to be a lesbian), I could be writing this as a trans man.’
Playing with dolls and make-up is generally considered to be conforming to the classic female gender role that society has provided us with. Julie did not conform to the role expected of her and she says that if she had gone to a psychiatrist they may have considered her to be gender confused or transsexual. One would hope this would not happen. We should expect a specialist to be aware of the difference.
Not conforming to a gender role is different from having transsexual feelings. Often homosexuals (male and female) defy their assigned roles. They do not feel like they wish to be in the body of the opposite sex.
There is a distinction to be made between being homosexual and being transsexual. Because there may be common ’symptoms’ does not mean that they are the same. Transsexual people often feel that there is no way that they can live in the body they were born in -it is uncomfortable and depressing to pretend to be something that you psychologically are not. While homosexuals often have their own anguish and troubles throughout their development, it is not of the same calibre or nature as one who feels at odds not only with their environment, but with their own body.
Many trans people are not homosexual. They live perfectly ‘normal’ straight lives as women or men.
Julie Bindel has reflected upon an earlier article she wrote.
‘In hindsight, the sarcasm I used in my column was misplaced and insensitive (“Imagine a world inhabited just by transsexuals,” I wrote, complaining about the way many transsexuals parody traditional masculine and feminine styles of dress. “It would look like the set of Grease.”).’
Few journalist would have the humility to admit their mistakes let alone write about them. Hats off to Julie. She is correct. The fact the people reacted so much to force her to write a reply highlights the importance of the issue. The topic should not be so sacred that we cannot have a calm discussion about it without being hailed as someone who hates.
She also took part in a debate that I caught on Radio 4 not too long ago. She was given an impossible position to hold. She was put up against an audience and panel that she knew was dead against her. Yet she stood up and said what she thought in a calm and well structured debate. The contents of the debate are irrelevant to this point; what I admire is her determination.
‘It was one of the most challenging and stimulating debates I have taken part in. Not because the panel or the audience conceded much to my arguments, but because I was given a platform for my opinions, which are so often censored by those accusing me of bigotry and ignorance.’
So far, Julie Bindel is doing well in my books. Sadly, we now turn to an article she wrote for the Guardian newspaper entitled ‘Gender Benders, Beware’. This piece of writing lacks the objectivity of some of her other articles (comments about Grease notwithstanding). It appears that she has not considered the other side of the argument. The smaller aspects are the most annoying and contribute to the overall feel of the article. The article is in part a response to the transwoman who was not allowed to work as a rape victim helper. I don’t feel I have a right to pass judgement on the case itself, as I do not know the full details. The point I am trying to make is not who is right, but how Bindel presented her argument.
‘In 2002, Nixon had won $7,500, the highest amount ever awarded by the tribunal, for injury to “her dignity”‘
Reporting in whatever style, it is unprofessional to mock her with the sarcastic “her dignity”- the words are presented as if they are almost a ridiculous concept, instead of words which can be used ordinarily. Such an underhand blow I thought would have been edited out. Whatever the circumstances of the transwoman, she deserves respect as a human; and that means respecting her dignity.
‘The arrogance is staggering: having not experienced life as a “woman” until middle age, Nixon assumed “she” would be suitable to counsel women who have chosen to access a service that offers support from women who have suffered similar experiences, not from a man in a dress! The Rape Relief sisters, who do not believe a surgically constructed vagina and hormonally grown breasts make you a woman, successfully challenged the ruling and, for now at least, the law says that to suffer discrimination as a woman you have to be, er, a woman.’
Bindel makes her point but there are more dignified and respectable ways in which to pass comment. The sarcastic and superior tone that this passage takes is shocking. The trans woman has spent a good deal of her life struggling to be accepted and treated as the woman she feels she is. All else aside, giving her the respect of using the correct pronoun for her chosen gender without implying that is incorrect, is just common courtesy. I have never met the woman involved and I am going to guess that neither has Bindel. I am not going to pass judgment until know more, but if someone feels about something so strongly that they are willing to get surgery to assist, then they deserve to be allowed to live as their chosen gender.
Further to this, Bindel is not only stylistically insulting, but fails to acknowledge the view held by many trans-sexuals that their gender identity is based on mental, not physical, traits. While it is easy to appreciate why a female who has suffered gender-related abuse may be more comfortable with a physical female, it would be to Bindel’s credit if she could be similarly sympathetic to the desires and emotions of the transsexual woman involved.
The article continues in this insulting vein for sometime before concluding that…
‘I don’t have a problem with men disposing of their genitals, but it does not make them women, in the same way that shoving a bit of vacuum hose down your 501s does not make you a man.’
Should this women be awarded Journalist of the Year by an association that supports gay, lesbian and bisexual rights? Certainly Julie Bindel writes confidently and sticks by her beliefs. She reports what she thinks and is apparently unafraid of the consequences. As such, perhaps she does deserve an award for journalism. Keeping alive the spirit of debate and discussion is important. Does she deserve it from a group dedicated to the equality of LGB people? I am not sure. Although Stonewall does not represent trans people, they should perhaps think about us as humans if nothing else. Do we deserve the disrespect that Bindel gives us?
I know that many feminists believe that gender is just socially constructed and the idea of transsexuals is often insulting to that idea. If we lived in a world with no gender roles, would transsexuals feel the need to transition? I am not sure I would, however I find it very difficult to imagine a world without social norms such as gender.
Discuss
x
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/31/gender.weekend7
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/apr/10/gender.gayrights
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/aug/01/mytransmission








14 comments
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October 15, 2008 at 10:36 pm
Fiona
http://gaymafiawatch.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/stonewall-and-the-illuminati/ …. this article explains some reasons why Stonewall itself will never accept transgendered people. The late Baroness Summerskill was a notable feminist and a member oof a secret society known as the Fabians – a group connected to the Freemasons and her grandson is now Stonewall’s Chief Executive.
October 15, 2008 at 10:39 pm
Squigglefish
You’ve managed to miss what was actually put forward by her in the hecklers debate, and entirely ignored the difference between gender role, sex, and gender identity.
If your local LGBTQ has a copy of whipping Girl, I would recommend you read it, as I think you would find its contents interesting. If they don’t, then ask them to pick up a copy – most NUS LGBTQs always seem to want new book suggestions!
October 15, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Alice
Squigglefish:
Yes, i wrote this in a fluster. I will be making amendments and corrections throughout the evening. Thank you for pointing out some things. Come back in a 20 mins for amendments.
I will have a look for that book.
x
October 15, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Alma Cork
One quick point to your reasoning…….
Initally you give points for saying that Julie conceeded that her earlier article was worded a trifle awkwardly, but later you remove those points based on quotations from the *same* article. If you’re following through your argument this way then, really, it all cancels out.
On the other hand, and I’m afraid I don’t have evidence of this as I cannot find the links to the cached pages (if they even exist anymore), Julie has been responsible for trolling dyke centered internet messageboards about this issue (TechnoDyke, when it was still around). She also echos similar, hell, identical rhetoric as that which came from Janice Raymond in The Transsexual Empire (the book which really, in my understanding, firmly cemented the battlelines between secondwave feminists and trans-people. read about sandy stone and olivia records). It’s also clear, irrespective of how she frames her opinions, that her thoughts and feelings regarding trans women are that they are simply ‘men in dresses’ who just need a good bit of counselling, and that trans men are lesbians who have been stolen by the trans agenda (ironically, where the latter is concerned, i’ve heard reports of lesbian culture co-opting trans culture in some regions of america, which may be where her worries come from, but that’s something that comes from within dyke space and isn’t forced upon it by lesbian-theiving-trans people).
Please don’t trust anything that I say here as truth, of course, because you should totally make up your own mind. On the other hand, I think you’ll find many people have a rich and long history of experiencing this sort of crap from Julie, second wave feminists, and the mainstream LGb movement (and, where the latter is concerned, it’s not just T* people. go google Gay Shame), and they are not simply jumping to conclusions based on some quotations on a facebook page (well, i can’t speak for everybody, of course, but i know i’m not).
We’ve, collectively, been putting up with nonsense like this for a long, long time.
Cheers xx
October 15, 2008 at 10:50 pm
Krissie Pearse
A few basic points…
1) Julie Bindel believes that as “trans” people aren’t really their assigned gender (IE, a M2F transsexual person isn’t really a woman), then she believes by extention that LGB transsexual people aren’t really LGB at all. By Stonewall giving her an award for her journalism, which includes remarks claiming the above, they must either agree with Julie’s analysis, or they must hold Transsexual people in significant enough contempt or insignificance that they feel it perfectly reasonable to support the journalism of a person which publically espouses such views.
2) Stonewall is named afte a riot that not only set the cornerstone of Gay rights, but effectively started the movement for them. That riot was started by trans people, and trans people fought in it side by side with gay people. By an organisation of such a name to endorse the journalism of someone who writes publically about transsexual people in such a negative way, it is not only causing offence to trans people by the act of doing so in itself, but it is forgetting the none too insignificant contribution of trans people to the gay rights movement, and indeed, it’s effectively kicking trans people in the teeth for it.
3) Persuant to the above two points, Stonewall must therefore either be so organisationally idiotic as to not see the significance of what they are doing by this nomination, or they must hold trans people in contempt – ie, transphobia. As they have been well informed of the former and continue along the path regardless of it, it becomes increasingly likely that rather than being stupid as an organisation, they in fact know full well what they are doing and are indeed transphobic.
October 15, 2008 at 11:27 pm
Lisa Harney
It really comes down to this:
Julie Bindel doesn’t want transsexual people to have access to treatment that we need to live normal, healthy lives. She wants us to use “talking therapy” to somehow divest ourselves of this need.
That’s reparative therapy.
Many of us have spent years reading what Julie Bindel and other feminists like her have had to say about transsexual people, asserting alleged facts about our lives and beliefs that are simply not true. I, at least, am fairly confident as to what all this means.
I am also fairly confident that Stonewall giving an award to someone who wants transsexual people to not exist is a ringing endorsement to that point of view.
I also don’t believe that Julie is presenting a valid, dissenting view about trans people, and I think it needs to be clear that debating the validity of people’s lives is a politically hostile act, an ideological shot across the bow, not friendly disagreement. She doesn’t have an alternative view of transsexuality, she has an ignorant, biased view of transsexuality which is apparently completely uninformed by real actual transsexual people who have to live with being transsexual on a daily basis.
Not all opinions are equally valid, after all.
October 16, 2008 at 12:07 am
SnowdropExplodes
I’ve always been very suspicious of Bindel’s attitude towards transgendered folks, and I think Lisa Harney has hit the nail on the head as to exactly why that is.
Plus, Bindel adopts the simplistic model of gender beloved by so many feminists who think themselves ‘radical”, but which ignores that gender operates on many different dimensions.
The complete logic FAIL of “the law says that to suffer discrimination as a woman you have to be, er, a woman,” when coupled with a “social construct” theory of gender is very telling: from the radical feminist point of view, all one has to do to be discriminated against as a woman, is to be perceived as woman (or just as effeminate) by the majority of society. For Bindel (or any feminist) suddenly to think that being born with a vagina is essential to being a woman, surely tells us that there is some other underlying reason for their wish to exclude trans women, and trans folk in general.
October 16, 2008 at 12:55 am
Natacha
“Think about a world inhabited just by transsexuals. It would look like the set of Grease. ”
Is, in my opinion the worst quote from her, hypocrisy; she wants women to be able to escape the stereotyped images of femininity yet she presents a stereotyped image of trans people which is so far removed from reality it is ridiculous.
This reminds me of some of the racial stereotyping which you could see 40 or 50 years ago with “Little Black Sambo” and “the Black and White Minstrel Show.
It really is appalling. There is no question about her transphobic attitude. I am not going to be treated like this by her.
October 16, 2008 at 10:56 am
Loz
I managed to get down what she said at Hecklers here. In addition, there are MP3s of the show drifting around if people want to hear exactly what was said.
She’s expressed regret at her tone but not apologised for writing the pieces.
Unfortunately it’s a Stonewall-assembled collection of worthies that assembles the shortlist of journos and decides who the winner is, so all the complaints in the world will not move them, not that that’s going to stop me from making my phonecall to Stonewall. Part of the problem is that Stonewall have not really engaged with any of the complaints and just tried to brush people off with form email responses which have not exactly helped the situation.
October 16, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Lynn Jones
I don’t think that ’sarcarm’ is an acceptable excuse. I think most of us know that the written word needs a little helping hand when it comes to tone as it is very easy to get the wrong end of the stick. As a professional journalist, you would expect her to know that.
I think Natacha’s comments about racism are very accurate. You wouldn’t tolerate that type of cr*p about women, black or gay people. Why is acceptable to say the same thing about the transgender community?
October 16, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Lynn Jones
b*lls. I meant sarcasm. Sheesh. Use a spell checker Lynn
October 18, 2008 at 5:53 am
Intersexuality
http://www.thespectrum.net/manga_scans/?preview=manga_Intersexuality
Read the first volume. This is a work of fiction – a graphic novel that shows the transgendered/transsexual/intersexual plight in modern society.
It’s actually deeply moving and I have to admit, I was touched. Media likes to portray people of transgendered/transsexual/intersexual status as sexual freaks, perverts or fetishists…this graphic novel breaks ground and shows that no matter who you are, you are a human being with the need to be loved. It shows the painful trials and tribulations a teenager must go through to find his/her identity in life….powerful. This will soon become a hit and most likely a movie – either in Asia or Hollywood.
Take a read.
October 20, 2008 at 9:17 am
Donna McLain
—
If your local LGBTQ has a copy of whipping Girl, I would recommend you read it, as I think you would find its contents interesting. If they don’t, then ask them to pick up a copy – most NUS LGBTQs always seem to want new book suggestions!
—
I agree on whipping girl
October 30, 2008 at 3:30 am
Stonewall now Controlling the Media
Has anyone noticed how Pink News have failed to pick up the story but ave instead gone and posted a “positive” story about the Stonewall awards something to do with some gay bishop and have totally IGNORED the current fury! Pinknews.co.uk is proud to be “Stonewall Publication of the Year” along with no less than 3 adverts for Stonewall themselves but no mention of any of this?
http://www.rainbownetwork.com/UserPortal/Article/Detail.aspx?ID=22723&sid=5
http://www.penwing.me.uk/taxonomy/term/219
http://boards.gingerbeer.co.uk/index.php?topic=84503.0
http://www.pamshouseblend.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=7522
http://difficulty.wordpress.com/2008/10/15/stonewall-transphobic-awards/
http://current.com/items/89394437_controversy_over_stonewall_awards
Yet more New-Labour spun pro-Stonewall propaganda designed to cover up the current controversies surrounding these dubious awards and the fact that there is obviously a very close relationship influencing the impartiality of “Pink News”.
I tried to post this on htp://www.pinknews.co.uk but the comments were turned off for that news story!
Scandalous